Fuel Injected Innova first ride

[digger06]

the speedo on mine is a little fast. At around 64-65 mph indicated it was doing a true a 58.2 mph (max speed indicated on my GPS) so it's around 10% fast. which is typical for vehicle speedos. Strangely my C90 Cub speedo is exactly correct according to my GPS with 50 mph indicated on the Cub's clock showing as precisely 50mph on the GPS. In fact it's spot on at all speeds...Highly unusual!

...

i recon most cubs were built before speed cameras, so they did not need an accurate speedo, so some are fast,slow, some are spot on,,,

nowadays speedo,s must be accurate enough to cope with gatso,s to within 1mph,
given the differences in tyre profiles etc, they will make em read fast to stop anyone getting done by a bad speedo and potentially suing the bike manufacturer,

a sat nav wasnt intended as a road going accessory originally, it was a military thing, so the speedo is often very accurate,

[Jon]

the speedo on mine is a little fast. At around 64-65 mph indicated it was doing a true a 58.2 mph (max speed indicated on my GPS) so it's around 10% fast. which is typical for vehicle speedos. Strangely my C90 Cub speedo is exactly correct according to my GPS with 50 mph indicated on the Cub's clock showing as precisely 50mph on the GPS. In fact it's spot on at all speeds...Highly unusual!

...

i recon most cubs were built before speed cameras, so they did not need an accurate speedo, so some are fast,slow, some are spot on,,,

nowadays speedo,s must be accurate enough to cope with gatso,s to within 1mph,
given the differences in tyre profiles etc, they will make em read fast to stop anyone getting done by a bad speedo and potentially suing the bike manufacturer,

a sat nav wasnt intended as a road going accessory originally, it was a military thing, so the speedo is often very accurate,

No, I was in the Police in the early '80's and our GLT Volvo's were fitted with calibrated speedos, and the stock car speedo was, yep, 10% fast.
I also had a 1976 Police BMW 750 which had a calibrated speedo running off a 'Y' connector so both the original bike speedo and the calibrated instrument were working. At exactly 117 true speed the BMW's own speedo read 124...So quite good, but not accurate.

My W650 also reads fast but that one is gearbox driven so the inaccuracy depends on the rear tyre diameter. the best I've seen with a new TT100 was 118.6 true speed, 124mph indicated @7400 rpm. The worst, 115 true at 124mph indicated @7400 rpm with a Conti classic.
With the exception of one of my Xantias, which had the wrong sender unit and so co-incidentally was absolutely accurate, every car I've ever owned, and every other bike bar one, my Lemans, was between 8 and 10% fast. The leMans was 10% fast up to a 100 mph, 5% slow at 120 MPH, and spot on at 140 MPH (according to the revs, the gearing and the tyre diameter)

Cars and bikes have always had optimistic speedos so at the posted limit even allowing for inaccuracies in instrument manufacture the vehicle would never be going faster than the speedo's claimed speed. Don't forget, police cars have had accurate speedos , radar and Vascar long before speed cameras and GPS

[Newtsalad]

Rear tyre at 60 psi,

Great write up, but I find 60psi a little scary... More than I've ever dared run on. Is that a one off, or do you run at that regularly? any bulging or misshape of the tyres?

[Jon]

Rear tyre at 60 psi,

Great write up, but I find 60psi a little scary... More than I've ever dared run on. Is that a one off, or do you run at that regularly? any bulging or misshape of the tyres?

To be honest, I rode the bike just as it came from the dealers. After riding I decided to check the tyres thinking I'd push them up to 55 p.s.i which is where the Cub's have been all the time...And the Innova tyres were already at 60 p.s.i!



They look fine. No real reason why they should bulge or anything at that pressure. Push bike Raleigh Records run at 55 to 80 p.s.i.

I did strip the C90's wheels, wire brushed them until they were as smooth and clean as possible then used a cure-rust type product around the spokes and inner rim flange before using insulating tape either side of a healthy rim tape to ensure no inner rim scabbiness could 'see' the tube.
I had one puncture ( a nail) several thousand miles later which was repaired with a propriety slime type goo bought from a scooter/agricultural shop and squeezed in before re-inflating. That got me home (two-up) but I replaced the slimed tube with a new one. that was the only puncture in several thousand more two-up miles at 55 p.s.i.. I do however do a lot of bicycles so what seems like an easy job cleaning and prepping the Cub's rim to take high pressures without chafing the tube might not be as 'first time reliable' if you've never done it.

I've got my new Puig screen and Oxford top box on the innova now so it'll be ridden later today to see how well it goes with those accessories....Should be faster ...fingers crossed!

[Jon]

Well I took the bike out all be-screened and with it's new top box. Unfortunately there was a bitterly cold headwind in one direction so going the other way the genuine top speed, down hill with the wind behind, was...65 mph on the GPS. the bike held a true 60 mph on the flat,again, with the wind. I didn't notice the speedo what with having the hold my GPS in my hand and holding the bike straight but I'm assuming over 70 on the clock...

I do recall the old C90 feeling a bit less brisk with it's top box on so it might be the fastest solution to run without the top box...

[Jon]

Right...First longish night ride. around 70 miles. The headlamp is very good, much better than even a halogen-ised Cubs, and with the 120watt alternator, there's a chance it'll take a 65 watter...Although the Fi system may well be a bit juicy...
Flat out on the motorway it'll hold 60...(indicating around 68 on the clock). Generally I reckon 50 to 55 which makes it about around 5 mph faster than the Cub but there isn't a lot in it.

It's as fast in third gear as it is in fourth and of course a bit punchier although the engine is very flexible.
In a way Honda have gone full circle. Compared to the C90 the bike has a bigger engine and uses more fuel, but is geared higher so uses about the same amount of fuel. the engine produces more power but is geared higher so pulls about the same.

It is however very smooth and flexible in top and little is gained by dropping a cog although in busy traffic first gear has a 30 mph range and is pretty useful for popping out of the metal herd in the van!

However, the Innova has a separate centrifugal clutch to it's multiplate. In my opinion this is because the extra torque and higher gearing of the 125cc engine would wear a clutch similar in size to the stock 90's multiplate clutch somewhat prematurely if ridden as an automatic during most manoeuvres, so instead of increasing the Innova's clutch surface area significantly to cope, they gave it a separate clutch to manage it's auto abilities.

The end result is that in fourth gear it'll run right down to almost walking pace and pull smoothly and strongly away. The centrifugal clutch is utterly seamless on operation and you genuinely can't tell when it is working. On the C90, you could feel the clutch lock up if you ran down below 15 mph and accelerated away in top...On the Innova there is no sense at all... It's really nice like that and makes for a very efficient smooth transport solution. The only downside so far is 100 mpg thrashed flat out and my mate reckons it looks really gay!

[Boo]

.Although the Fi system may well be a bit juicy...

I read somewhere on t' net the PGM system is very low current.. Designed to start ok on alternator power only with a completely flat battery.

However, the Innova has a separate centrifugal clutch to it's multiplate. In my opinion this is because the extra torque and higher gearing of the 125cc engine would wear a clutch similar in size to the stock 90's multiplate clutch somewhat prematurely if ridden as an automatic during most manoeuvres, so instead of increasing the Innova's clutch surface area significantly to cope, they gave it a separate clutch to manage it's auto abilities.

I think they changed the design for smoothness of riding rather than (or as well as) a torque issue.. The same double clutch setup is also used on Honda Dream 100, Cub 110, Wave 100/110 etc.
The Innova also apparently has a crankshaft brake, which slows the crank down for gearchanges, but I've never been inside one to see how it works. Dunno if the 100/110 also does this.

The end result is that in fourth gear it'll run right down to almost walking pace and pull smoothly and strongly away. The centrifugal clutch is utterly seamless on operation and you genuinely can't tell when it is working. On the C90, you could feel the clutch lock up if you ran down below 15 mph and accelerated away in top...On the Innova there is no sense at all... It's really nice like that and makes for a very efficient smooth transport solution.

That's about the only thing I dislike about my Wuyang engine (same clutch setup as the Innova) Where the Cub's clutch would lock at fairly low revs, this slips like a bugger below about 25mph in top. All that wasted energy! Same under hard acceleration.. The old Cub type clutch would be nicely locked when you release the gear pedal, this one slips into engagement after every upchange like a knackered manual clutch would.

The only downside so far is 100 mpg thrashed flat out

That's interesting. My mate gets 140+ from his - but he does ride it like a nancy boy!

[Pjam]

I'd go along with all your findings though I think my carb version may be a bit quicker. Not by much perhaps. The seat is my biggest complaint, 40miles = numb bum. And I still don't like the clutch either.
Also I think the Cub a bit more nibble in the traffic. I often switch from Cub to Innova and vice versa and the front brake catches me out sometimes.

[Jon]

I'd go along with all your findings though I think my carb version may be a bit quicker. Not by much perhaps. The seat is my biggest complaint, 40miles = numb bum. And I still don't like the clutch either.
Also I think the Cub a bit more nibble in the traffic. I often switch from Cub to Innova and vice versa and the front brake catches me out sometimes.

My speeds are all GPS ones. It'll show 65-75 on the speedo...