New Bike!

[Jon]

I must be mental!

After buying a CB125T and a D200 Benly, getting the CD200 benly fixed and sold, and getting the CB125 Twin legal and running...I've just bought a CD185 Benly....

hing is, I was undecided about whether to keep the 125T and sell the Benly and the Cub, or if the 125T was ferked, keep the Benly. I really enjoyed the gentle 'Cubbiness' of the Benly but sold it before the 125T was done. The 125T is now manically revving to 12,000 rpm and is a right little hooligan bike...But I really want a gentle plodder . If I want to 'engage' with the bike and the road, I'll do that on the 650 Kwak... Sigh...

Trying to find a bike that 'Cubs' as well as a Cub but doesn't work too hard at 50 mph is difficult. Enfields do, but you've always got an ear out for exploding engines, Tricky... I can't think of another bike other than the Benly as it's 360 deg lump vibes limit it to 50-60 mph tops yet at those speeds they do 150 mpg....

[Cerberus73]

Hmmmm how about a CB350 lovely looking, not so underpowered that it feels ponderous, but still capable of 50mph plodding... and still decent mpg. a good compromise bike.

heres a cracker on ebay.. bit pricey but if i had the cash id be all over it! cubs go for this money these days.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB350-4 ... 1081wt_761

[Jon]

Hmmmm how about a CB350 lovely looking, not so underpowered that it feels ponderous, but still capable of 50mph plodding... and still decent mpg. a good compromise bike.

heres a cracker on ebay.. bit pricey but if i had the cash id be all over it! cubs go for this money these days.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB350-4 ... 1081wt_761

Thing is, my W650 will do the 50 mph thing but ...it's quite tricky to explain... i don't want to do 50 when I'm riding a bike...I like getting involved with the machine, getting the gearshifts perfect, setting the bike up for a bend...All that...And then taking that harmonious meld of rider and machine and riding the road...getting the lines right, picking the perfect braking spots...All that 'bike' stuff.
Almost uniquely though, a Cub removes that 'Zen' stuff. It's mechanically limited to speeds lower than are demanding on most roads and it has virtually no controls to become 'at one' with...No clutch, effectively one gear. You even sit on it in a non involving way...When I ride my Cub, I'm not RIDING... I'm travelling....And there's a completely different 'zen' in that process. Obviously there's the ultra fun of weaving through traffic jams and all that, but on the open road you don't have to work at the art of riding a motorbike....
Ordinary bikes nag you to ride them like motorbikes. A CB350 will cruise at 70-80 mph and feels quite happy doing so...So you do...and then you are back to 'having' to ride. Even if you force yourself to ride at 50 you end up accelerating to get past someone and then you are doing 55...then 60 and so on.

Yes, I know, I have no discipline!...But I don't want to be hassled by discipline...I don't want the bike to be going at less than it was designed to go because they then nag you to go faster and then you are back to that other place....The thing is, I think the Cub's engine is a little small to be a 50 mph machine...our Cambodian friend with his 20 mph speeds, 350 mpg fuel economy and 160,000 mile old motor shows us that Cubs are working too hard at 50 mph in the UK where they manage 100 mpg, and 20,000 miles between top ends.
There's no doubt in my mind that 50 mph is the right 'travelling' speed on UK roads on a two wheeler. You are at the edge of the big increases in wind drag so fuel economy can still be good, and 50 mph is fast enough to not inconvenience other vehicles for too long as long as you wave them past when it's safe.

So, the question remains. What bikes are happy at 50ish , not being stretched mechanically, enough torque to stay in top gear up hill and down dale, but don't want to go faster than 50.....All i can think of is any number of old Brit singles (which are, frankly, a pain to rely on and mind buggeringly expensive these days)....Or...Enfields...which may well try to persuade you to go faster then blow up when you do...Or the venerable Benly.

Thing is, a Benly is de-tuned....very de-tuned... wasted spark, little single carb, soft cam timing, all that stuff, so before the motor gets into the area where it's starting to wear mechanically, it's not only wheezing like an asthmatic couch potato, it's vibrating so badly you think you've gone blind...it ain't happy and it lets you know. So you settle back to 50 where it does 150 mpg, pulls in top effortlessly and generally out-cubs a Cub.

Actually, I think i might be able to do that on an Enfield 350 trials or even a BSA C11.....But with a Benly, you don't have to think about the bike...It's not part of the journey, It, like a Cub, is like a pair of comfy walking shoes... indispensable but not involving!

[Cerberus73]

hmmm you would love my old kwak kh then u need to play tunes on the gearbox to get its potential out (75mph) so your constantly up and down shifting especially on a hilly bendy road just to keep the pace up, its a barrel of laughs, so perhaps a small stroker may fill your requirements a trailie like a DT yam or a KE kwak, so could be used for greenlaning, id say maybe a CR honda if you could get a road legal one.

[Jon]

hmmm you would love my old kwak kh then u need to play tunes on the gearbox to get its potential out (75mph) so your constantly up and down shifting especially on a hilly bendy road just to keep the pace up, its a barrel of laughs, so perhaps a small stroker may fill your requirements a trailie like a DT yam or a KE kwak, so could be used for greenlaning, id say maybe a CR honda if you could get a road legal one.

the W650 is enough bike for me...Revvy, torquey...Pulls from 1200 rpm in top and revs out hard past 7500...i want a torquey little bike ...something that does 50 without trying but is happy to run at 50. i already have a mental revvy 125... the Honda goes to 12,000 rpm and frankly, it's a whole lot of effort for not a lot of reward!

[zippy]

sommer 462 now that got torque

[Boo]

, a Cub removes that 'Zen' stuff. It's mechanically limited to speeds lower than are demanding on most roads and it has virtually no controls to become 'at one' with...No clutch, effectively one gear.

The Cub's clutch pedal and use of the widely spread gear ratios is one of the most pleasingly zenlike aspects of riding it!

[Jon]

, a Cub removes that 'Zen' stuff. It's mechanically limited to speeds lower than are demanding on most roads and it has virtually no controls to become 'at one' with...No clutch, effectively one gear.

The Cub's clutch pedal and use of the widely spread gear ratios is one of the most pleasingly zenlike aspects of riding it!

I agree, although I tend to resent shifting. Shifting means you've had to stop...It's a chore that has to be endured until you are back in top and the bike is getting on with moving you without...moving you...

I like to use the spread of revs in top though...That's a true Zen feature especially because Sochiro designed it that way...

[Cerberus73]

hmmm sounds like u need a large single lung thumper a xt250 or 500, or a XL250 or 500... they are designed to go from a crawl up to there top end without to much shifting. the low gears are more or less like a low ratio 4x4 box and the 2 top are like 2nd n 3rd on a cub, the heavy crank keeps them plodding along and the pace up, they dont scream to silly rpm, its all low down torque, the 250s top out at anbout 70-80 and the 500 barely make the ton, but can sit at 50 at about 3-4000rpm all day long and top will do ya from 20mph to there top end. personally the earlier the bike the prettier they are. so a 70s xl or xt... if i had the cash and could merit the expense i would love a XT500 in my collection... but theres so many others id love in there as well.

[Jon]

hmmm sounds like u need a large single lung thumper a xt250 or 500, or a XL250 or 500... they are designed to go from a crawl up to there top end without to much shifting. the low gears are more or less like a low ratio 4x4 box and the 2 top are like 2nd n 3rd on a cub, the heavy crank keeps them plodding along and the pace up, they dont scream to silly rpm, its all low down torque, the 250s top out at anbout 70-80 and the 500 barely make the ton, but can sit at 50 at about 3-4000rpm all day long and top will do ya from 20mph to there top end. personally the earlier the bike the prettier they are. so a 70s xl or xt... if i had the cash and could merit the expense i would love a XT500 in my collection... but theres so many others id love in there as well.

Actually the 500's don't really work like that. I've had two SR's and my mate had an XT and a TT. The Brit market ones really don't plod in that archetypal way you imagine they should. Below 2000 rpm they are snatchy and unhappy, above 6000 rpm they run out of puff. There was a late '80's German market SR500 which was detuned to 27 BHP and retro-fitted with a neat looking drum brake but whether they were softer I don't know. Interestingly, the SR500 had almost identical bore/stroke and compression ratios to a DBD34 Gold Star...A bike not renowned for flexible top gear performance! A Goldy pipe on an SR made exactly the same sound as a real Goldy and makes a stock SR fly!

i looked at an XR but they are revvy little buggers...Nice bikes mind...My mate has a CB250RS single and they go really well...much better than a Superdream but again it's a bike that wants to be ridden. I've got one of those already

The basic problem with almost ALL bikes is that the manufacturers put emphasis on getting a lot of power out of the engines, which inevitably compromises flexibility. In fact the most flexible and best balanced bike I've ever ridden is my W650 which is a 50 BHP 671cc parallel twin....But that is 'happy' at 85 mph and at that speed, the 'riding' is the involving bit, not the travelling...

What I want for my 'travelling bike' is something like a post war side valve...All tall gears and torque...But built by Honda.

?the thing is, I want the bike to want to go at 50. I don't want a bike that wants to go at 70 mph and then ride it at 50.
Benly's like going at 50 but will, if beaten with sticks, go up to 80 so you can get past 45 mph old ladies but they 'feel' comfy, relaxed and happy at 50